LCS USS FreedomThe chorus of criticism facing the first ships of the Navy’s new Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) class calls for a little historical context to be brought to this debate. Almost all new ship classes experienced considerable “birthing pains” in their early days.

This is not new. Indeed, the first six frigates acquired by the American Navy in 1797 all came in late and over budget.

The most strident criticisms about LCS focus on the USS Freedom (LCS-1, built by Lockheed Martin) and Independence (LCS-2, built by General Dynamics and Austal), which in addition to being the firsts of their respective ship design types, are essentially research and development firsts-of-class ships –– virtual prototypes. This means that these ships are experimental with characteristics, issues and challenges that will be corrected in follow-on ships. The Navy contributed to this situation, describing the lead units of both variants as “Sea Frame 0” platforms, begging the question: “what’s a ‘Sea Frame,’ anyway?

Hagel aboard USS Freedom

SecDef Hagel tours the USS Freedom in Singapore at Changi Naval Base.

All the first-of-class surface warships in recent Navy history have experienced significant problems to  one degree or another, all of which generated considerable criticism at the time of their construction and initial deployment.

The Knox class frigates (which achieved Initial Operational Capability in 1969) were labeled as “McNamara’s Folly” after then-Defense Secretary Robert McNamara and were often criticized for their single screw, single gun, and design-to-cost approach. Originally designated as destroyer-escorts, the entire class was re-classified as frigates in 1975 (in a general re-classification of U.S. surface warships), but were forever compared unfavorably to “real” destroyers.

Spruance class destroyers (IOC 1975) were criticized as bit 7,900 ton “destroyers” possessing only two five-inch guns and an ASROC launcher. They were hardly more capable than the still-in service World War II-era destroyers upgraded as part of the Fleet Rehabilitation and Modernization (FRAM) program. But the ships’ critics conveniently ignored other key facts that the Spruance-class was also helicopter capable, equipped with NATO Sea Sparrow Self Defense Missiles, and boasted a powerful bow mounted sonar. At the time, criticism of the Spruance ships was loud, strident and frequent.

The Perry class frigates (IOC 1977), much admired by many LCS critics, were unfavorably branded by as “square pegs” when they were first deployed. Criticism of the Perrys was fierce, including such charges as the ships had only a single shaft and were not survivable and suffered from the lack of main propulsion redundancy; they were problem-prone and had unreliable ship’s service diesel generators; a power-limited “fish finder” high-frequency sonar; and the Oto Malera 76mm was derided as a “pop gun” rather than a “proper” 5-inch gun. On top of all that, the critics said and the crew was too small and was unable to operate and maintain the ships properly. These echo many of today’s criticisms of LCS.

The Ticonderoga class cruisers fared little better when the lead ship first deployed in December 1983. Gallons of ink were spilled about how top heavy the ships were. They had weight and moment restrictions, suffered from poor sea keeping characteristics, and had unreliable “hydraulic fluid rain forest” MK26 missile launchers.

The Arleigh Burke class guided missile destroyers didn’t face as much criticism as its predecessors, but it was still roundly derided for having only a helicopter “lily pad” without an onboard hangar. Its engineering spaces with their low overheads bulged with pipes and cables. It was also said that the first ship, Arleigh Burke, was rebuilt three times over before final delivery because of an immature design, problems with sharing software between shipyards, and the late addition of “stealth” features.

Despite the early criticisms of almost every recent surface warship firsts of class, the Navy was able to successfully address the initial criticisms and fix their shortcomings. The criticisms of the Perry class ships were overcome in time, especially after the upgraded Coherent Receiver/Transmitter (CORT) combat systems were introduced.

The Spruance class evolved into a first rate anti-submarine warfare platform, with the Navy augmenting the original SQS-53 bow-mounted sonar with towed acoustic arrays in several ships of the class. Intelligence collection spaces were added aboard several ships, and the addition of Tomahawk cruise missiles, weapons that revolutionized the surface Navy by giving it a robust land attack warfare capability, were added later on. The four Kidd variants embarked improved MK26 launchers. Their design was the basis for the Ticonderoga guided missile cruisers.

The Ticonderoga class evolved into the premier anti-aircraft warfare platform in the world, and they too were fitted out with the MK41 vertical launching systems (VLS) to replace the MK26 missile launchers when VLS matured. In 2013, select ships have been upgraded to capable ballistic missile defense (BMD) assets. And what about the Arleigh Burke destroyers? Not only were later Flight II versions outfitted with helicopter hangars, but they  have evolved into what many naval experts say are the most capable surface warships ever built, capable of integrated AAW, ASW, BDM, and strike warfare missions.

Given the Navy’s history of initial issues and challenges, which the first ship of almost every modern surface combatant class has faced, are the challenges confronting USS Freedom and Independence significantly different? While it of course would be ideal if the first ships of any warship class would be delivered ready to go to war. It would be nice, but why should we expect less of the LCS firsts-of-class than the Spruance, Perry, Ticos, and Burkes have all achieved over time?

While some first-of-class ships are more highly criticized than others, the extent of negativity seems mostly attributable to the degree or amount of “newness” inherent in the ship’s design. The more “newness” that exists, the greater is the level of criticism. With LCS, which uniformed and civilian Navy leaders have universally said will usher in a new era in terms of how the Navy will conduct overseas presence and engagement, that “newness factor” is high. The Ticonderoga and Burke classes fared better, in terms of the overall level of criticism, compared to that leveled at lead ships of the Knox, Perry and Spruance classes, and now Freedom and Independence.

Part of this is attributable to the fact that Ticonderoga evolved from the already understood Spruance class, taking advantage of the same hull design and propulsion plant, but adding a new combat system. The Burke evolved from the Ticonderoga with the same combat system and propulsion plant, but a different hull design.

However, the Perry FFG began as a blank sheet of paper––originally conceived as a “Patrol Frigate” (PF-109)––with a significant amount of “newness”: new hull , new engineering plant, new sonar, new gun, and a new minimal-manning crew concept.

The LCS firsts-of-class are similarly “highly new”: new hull designs, new requirement for high speed, modular mission packages, heavy reliance on off-board vehicles for sensing and scouting, very minimal manning, crew swap, new shipbuilders, and a contractor supported maintenance strategy. Moreover, the Freedom and Indepedence are replacing three classes in terms of numbers, if not precisely in mission requirements: Cyclone class PCs, Perry class FFGs, and Avenger class MCMs. Given this degree of “newness,” it should not be surprising that LCS has generated so much public turbulence in the early stages of the programs.

The level of criticism being directed at LCS will most likely continue until additional ships of both the Freedom and Independence classes are delivered and deployed. Key to all this will be the fact that officers and sailors will learn in minute detail how to operate and maintain them––and unlock the operational flexibility and adaptability that Navy officials maintain are inherent in their respective designs.

Recent Navy history vividly demonstrates that the first ship of every class faced obstacles. We should maintain perspective: every new class of warship debuts to a chorus of critics

Robert Holzer, senior national security manager at Gryphon Technologies, was director of outreach for the Pentagon’s Office of Force Transformation and the longtime naval correspondent for Defense News. He is not working on LCS for any of the companies building the ships.

 

Comments

  • Don Bacon

    USS Freedom, just another typical experimental ship that has been cited as a principal instrument of the vaunted US pivot to Asia-Pacific, and has been boarded in far-away Singapore by almost four thousand visitors including SecDef Hagel, SecNav Mabus, and Admirals Greenert and Locklear. Unfortunately it has major problems, both technical and tactical.

    The Freedom’s many technical problems are well-known. Purchased with R&D funds, it is truly a prototype. It’s under-gunned and over-weight. It’s chronically unreliable. And its cost has doubled from the original estimate, to $440 million.

    Another problem is that even though the Navy has had ten years, it still doesn’t know how the LCS will be employed. Bob Work, Under Secretary of the Navy:

    We are also codifying the framework under which the LCS will be employed, known as the Concept of Employment (CONEMP). This document will evolve based on experience and will be a foundational reference, dictating how we will operate, man, train, maintain, modernize, and sustain these ships.

    The CONEMP will frame the critical program tenets and planning factors to build and refine the various mission-specific CONOPs and other implementation documents issued to support LCS Fleet introduction.

    It’s like — the crew will figure it out, or might figure it out if the Freedom were able to leave the pier where it’s tied up, and sail with a fleet somewhere. Meanwhile, speaking of the crew, check out the Freedom’s facebook page. The crew is having a great time in Singapore.
    https://www.facebook.com/USSFreedom

  • PolicyWonk

    The LCS has a number of inherent problems that cannot be fixed without changing the sea-frame itself. Only built to the level-1navy standard translates into a hull that is only moderately better than a commercial vessel. The level-1 standard isn’t able to take the kind of hit a fleet oiler can withstand, and no LCS has been shock tested. The Perry-class was at least built to the level 2 standard.

    The base armament is so weak as to be of little use attacking anything other than a mere speedboat. And if swarming speedboats were all the navy were concerned about then the LCS as currently designed (at $400M/copy) represents massive overkill.

    Other navies have built far more capable (with full military hulls) for far less money and are far better armed. The Skjold-class patrol boats represent a vastly bigger punch, with a 75mm gun and 8 anti-ship missiles, while the LCS carries a 57mm gun and no anti-ship missiles.

    And where LCS initially created quite a buzz and a lot of interest from other navies, ALL of those potential customers have walked away. They all know about teething problems as well, but saw this boat was born without any teeth and hence all walked away. The LCS is either massive overkill for the mission it was intended to fulfill, or far too weak to fulfill much at all – unless the sea-fram is radically upgraded. So far.

    The only winners in the LCS game are the defense contractors, and the losers are the US taxpayers. UNless something radical changes.

    • James Hasik

      I must offer a counterpoint to your argument about the gun. Bofors’ 57 mm can put more weight of shot on a target than can Otomelara’s 76 mm in the first few seconds of firing. There are other reasons to like Oto’s 76—it is admittedly longer ranged and can be provided with very modest shore bombardment capability. But the 3P ammunition on the 57 is an impressive benefit in a coastal fight with large numbers of ingressing boats and flying drones.

      • Don Bacon

        You seem to have gone further than the Navy has with your “coastal fight” scenario. Can you describe where (hypothetically) such a coastal battle might take place, given that the LCS is not supposed to operate independently, but as part of a fleet? And that on that coast there might be large-caliber weapons, cruise missiles, aircraft with stand-off missiles, etc? And why would the U.S. be involved in such a scenario anyhow — what would be the U.S. security interest? And how could they possibly prevail to victory?

        I really don’t mean to put it all on you. I think the difficulty in answering such a question is EXACTLY WHY the Navy hasn’t been able to come up with a Concept of Employment.This LCS thing is all smoke and mirrors, and high-level visits, and trade shows in Singapore. Don’t mean nuthin’. The Pentagon calls it “strategic communications.” Propaganda, to us.

        • Peter

          Actually, there was talk of uparming the LCS with a 76mm gun instead of a 57mm gun, but that’s just talk.

          The best proof came from a Naval Exercise with Canadian Forces as shown on the National Geographic Channel. That Canadian Warship has the same armament as the LCS and notice that the 57mm gun did NOT cause the target (steel plate) warship to list or even sink. The 57mm shells didn’t even seem to penetrate the hull. The USN could learn a lot by watching this video as to how effective their LCS will be in an Anti-Ship role against small plate steel warships, of which many Second and Third World nations have in their navies.

          See video:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1O2QC4PO4c

          It took a 76mm gun to sink that target Canadian Warship. I mean, come on, U.S. Navy, pay attention to some live weapons tests for once…it’s on video!

          While some of these For-or-against LCS articles are similar to student Naval Essays, I notice that hardly any of them actually address the issues of the LCS: technical, tactical, and capabilities as the other commentators here stated.

          The LCS replaces the OHP, Avenger, and PC… It’s a half-baked compromise so far. Sure, LCS may be better than underarmed and small PC, but it has no stern ramp, no Stinger SAM pintle mount, and no special berthings for SEALs. So LCS is not a SOCOM boat per se. LCS better than Avenger? For armament and speed, sure, but it has no mine countermeasure equipment so far and LCS sure isn’t a fiberglass or wooden hull boat. LCS better than OHP? LCS sure doesn’t have a 76mm gun, triple torpedo tubes, and even with the MK 13 launcher removed, LCS sure doesn’t have the MK38 MOD 2 25mm auto cannon or CIWS. I don’t even think or know if the LCS has a sonar or towed-array yet.

          These rumored Mission Modules…well, where are they? Even in the Anti-Surface Warfare Module role with two 30mm turret cannons, LCS doesn’t have any torpedo tubes like the OHP and surely no 76mm gun. It was the 76mm gun that brought down that target Canadian Warship. The 57mm is great against unarmored targets and Anti-Air roles, but for armored Anti-Ship…forget it.

          There currently is no LCS Anti-Sub, Anti-Mine, Anti-Air, and ECM or SOF Mission Modules just yet. The Anti-Surface Modules are two 30mm cannons…hardly Anti-Ship if the 57mm cannot sink plate steel. Heck, PC has two 25mm autocannons already…OHP has one in place of the MK 13 and one 20mm CIWS. Twin LCS 30mms isn’t like a huge booster in the Anti-Ship role compared to the ships LCS is going to replace.

          The SeaRAM is better than CIWS in that the missile reaches out to 5KM against air and surface targets, so that is a bit of an improvement over OHP CIWS, but PCs have Stingers to 5KM also and OHP has 10KM 76mm so SeaRAM is half that gun range.

          So…LCSs’ designs seems to be grasping for advantages when it has slim ones. Sure, 40KT speed is one of the advantages, but is there anything else positive with its current design? Hard to think of any. Hence…the critics!

          • PolicyWonk

            Thanks for the pointer to the video.

            Clearly, it was the 76mm that immediately caused real damage. Where it is doubtful that ship-to-ship gunfire is likely to happen very often in future engagements, I would certainly prefer to the 76mm on the LCS – I can see the possibility of a variety of shore-bombardment scenarios. There should be also a box or two of harpoons – some kind of stand off weapon.

            It is possible that a 57mm could sink an LCS – but as I pointed out before – thats only built to the level-1 standard. The Canadian target in the video was a real warship, that was (of course) notably not shooting back. If it were, and it had the 76mm gun it used to be armed with, those boats shooting the 57mm at it wouldn’t have even been able to approach it with being sunk.

            The surface warfare package provides additional 30mm capability to the inadequate 57mm gun to handle the smaller threats. But even this package is only intended for fighting non-governmentally sponsored pirates, speedboats, or drug runners.

            Teething problems with a new ship I understand. Even if they resolved the other (weapons, and propulsion-based) problems, the sea-frame should be built to the level-2 standard. Having the ship being survivable to the point where the crew can abandon ship before it sinks isn’t what I would call inspiring.

          • Peter

            Exactly. I am not sure if the USN sees the issues it has with the LCS. In order to get to the conflict, the LCSs have to sail across the Atlantic and Pacific, hopefully with heavier and better armed escorts. Fortunately, both oceans are at peace right now with strong Allies on both coasts so the need for ASW and AA might not be as needed if the LCSs sail alone.

            TV documentary also showed the LCS USS Freedom chasing a Go-Fast Drug Boat in the Gulf Coast with a RIB. The USS Freedom was right alongside that Go-Fast speedboat. So the USN already has data on how effective the LCS is against non-Government ships and fast speedboats. I am not sure if the LCS had the AS 30mm turret modules or not, but the options were 57mm, SeaRAM and machine guns.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A18hAGkCQLM

            Correction: USS Freedom class seems to have a RIB stern ramp.

            Problems I read is that the LCS is so fast that the 57mm cannot lock onto the target if the LCS is moving at high speeds…the gun isn’t stabilized enough to handle all the vibrations as the ship plows through the water. Also, I read that the 30mm turrets have reliability (feed) problems, same turrets found on the LPD Amphibs. Not sure how true this is, but the 57mm issue seems to be true. So that wipes away 3/4ths of the weapons mounted for self-defense when moving at speed. The cancellation of the 40KM+ NLOS-M is a major blow to the LCS Module program…and the planned replacement is a 5.5KM “Griffin” missile? Heck, just install more 5KM SeaRAMs instead…or opt for a longer-range missile system such as 50KM ESSM. Of course that would add more weight to the LCS and slow it down, something the USN doesn’t want.

          • Don Bacon

            Chase a $300K cigarette with a $400m LCS? No.
            So the LCS is still a ship looking for a mission.

            I guess the Navy figures that the 0-5 who commands the ship will find a mission, somewhere over there in the mysterious East.
            Let’s hope that it happens before they have fifty-two of them.

          • Joe

            I will add an addendum to this comment. They are now looking into arming it with a gauss cannon. Also, the NLOS that was supposed to represent a lot of it’s anti-surface capability was cancelled and is no fault of the ship itself.

  • bridgebuilder78

    No, birthing a ship is definitely not easy, but does it have to be so hard in this case?

  • Timo

    “…being the firsts of their respective ship design types, are essentially
    research and development firsts-of-class ships –– virtual prototypes.
    This means that these ships are experimental with characteristics, issues and challenges that will be corrected in follow-on ships.” If this is the case then why Navy was so eager to start mass production before testing was completed? There is not even functioning mission modules yet and no one knows yet if they demand changes to ship design itself.

    I have understood that previously Navy’s tactic was “Build a little, test a little, learn a lot”. Now it seems to be “Build a little, test a little, build a lot more, hope the best”. This doesn’t make sense to me!

    • PolicyWonk

      The first “experimental” versions of the LCS were supposedly based on the Sea Fighter – which is where the lessons were learned (so we were told). Hence – when it comes to the LCS, I consider that excuse BRAVO SIERRA.

      Whenever the story and/or justification keeps changing, it’s always because you were given a croc of fertilizer the first time. And when you (we) didn’t buy it, they try a new story. Then another. Then another.

      The truth of the matter is, from what I’ve read, seen and heard about this program: initially a number of other navies were interested in the LCS when it was a concept. Since it progressed one by one the potential customers bowed out until there were no more as the reality of what it was supposed to be failed to live up to its concept.

      • Paralus

        “Progressed” is a relative term. In this case everything capability-wise regressed except for the price.

        That we’ve scared off our allies from buying it should be proof positive that this design is a loser. How sad is it they can turn it down, but we cannot?

        The fact that the Navy keeps pushing for it means something is very wrong with USN and Congress.

        • PolicyWonk

          Well, the term “progressed” was intended to be sarcastic…

          That the potential buyers all walked away, all of them being aware of the article in questions content, is a pretty damning indictment.

  • idahoguy101

    Either LCS classes is very inferior the Denmark Navy’s Absalon class of frigate. In every way except ship speed. Building that ship could fill roles the the LCS clearly cannot.

    • Joe

      Except the long range missile systems that the navy was supposed to deliver but didn’t. Except for it’s incredible anti swarm capability. Except for the fact that these new ships were intended to fill a role in a much larger force of ships unlike the absalon. Expect for the fact that the US has the single worst fleet of ships for anti mine operations and the LCS will virtually replace their capabilities and then some. Except for the fact that the absalon is the premiere surface combatant of the danish navy and is meant to be less mission specific and yet the LCS can still perform many of its functions on an even level (not all, but some). Except for the fact that the absalon has terrible point defense capability except against aerial targets.

      If you mean very inferior in that remark, then yes, the LCS is inferior as a ship. Except that it can actually defend itself against swarm attacks.

  • Paralus

    Patient? It’s outgunned by most corvettes, It’s twice as expensive as intended and is an unreliable piece of junk. We’re going to put these ships in harms way and be outclassed by our allies in most cases, not to mention potential ‘peer rivals’.

    What does it say when a MEKO can be had with more firepower and at half the cost? We should be building be building Absalons for the cost of one LCS. And if you want smaller, you can buy a Skjold or Visby PLUS an Absalon and still be under $500-600 million for two vessels.

    If we’re patient, we’ll be stuck with these pieces of junk for the next 30 years.

  • Ted

    Remember the old boy scout motto? BE PREPARED. Well it still holds true today.
    Who cares how much it cost? We need to stay ahead of our enemies. And believe you me we seem to have several these days. If a new weapon of any size saves one American soldier or civilian life it will be worth it. It may be me or a member of your family it saves. GOD BLESS AMERICA Build them. Remember who beat us to space.
    Do we want other Countries to pass us up? Again.I will gladly pay my taxes if it saves my country and lives.

    • Ctrot

      Cost matters when better can be had for less.

  • Curtis Conway

    The primary criticism about the LCS is not the newness of the design. The experienced Surface Warfare Officers (SWOs) are aware of the rules, regulations and requirements for building and fielding surface combatants for the US Navy. Those requirements have been developed over time, and developed via experience (mostly paid for with blood) so that ‘we will not go back and make the same mistakes again’. The LCS program has crossed so many lines in its development, manning document, and armament capability and lead-out that it boggles the mind. The multi-warfare capable Oliver Hazard Perry FFG-7 Class vessel is exceedingly more capable than the LCS ever will be, and the LCS is to replace, one-for –one, the FFG-7s as they are decommissioned. Even if the mission modules were available today, and they worked as advertised, the LCS will be a ‘net negative’ to any at sea Battle Force it joins. The little LCS cannot take care of itself even to a fraction of the extent the FFG-7 is currently able. We in effect are weakening our at-sea combat capability with every exchange.

    A small, light and fast Aegis FFG is required. The Short Burke would be a bit expensive, but do the job credibly. The Huntington Ingalls Type 4921 or 4501 National Security Cutter derived designs provide a very capable sea-frame that will last 50 years; withstand extended periods underway in even the most severe environments (Northern Latitudes); and provide significant room for current and future weapons systems (Rail Gun and Directed Energy, along with VLS with mostly Evolved Sea Sparrow Missiles as its primary armament), Aegis Combat System and radar (probably a SPY-1F or AMDR Light); and propulsion modifications (Hybrid Electric Drive and Integrated Power System). This platform could most likely take on the Theater Ballistic Missile mission, but would be inappropriate for any Strategic
    Ballistic Missile mission due to the limitations of the primary 3D radar. This platform would be welcome in any at-sea formation. Mission module locations can be programmed into this hull as well.

    Naval history is replete with sailors being placed in harm’s way without the equipment to do the job, or even defend themselves. This LCS design group seems intent on following ‘THAT model’ in future combat at sea. This is why so much ‘push back’ by senior Captains, Admirals, and the SWO community is evident.

    The LCS, as currently envisioned, is going to get sailors killed. I would not serve on one.

    • PolicyWonk

      I agree the NSC design is superior, and unsurprisingly, an up-armored and up-armed version of the NSC was offered to the navy as an alternative, which they of course turned down.

      The NSC has the the legs, and having a common platform between the USCG and navy would make inter-service tasking that much easier.

      Instead, the navy went for arming the LCS with the same 57mm gun used by the USCG, which is fine for the USCG mission. It would seem that a larger gun would be better for the LCS, as has been discussed previous on this thread.

      I did see an article a while ago that suggested an Aegis variant of LCS was offered, but after that one article I’ve seen nothing else. At least then the LCS would have the ability to project some power, or at least give a potential naval adversary some brief pause before taking one on.

      Cheers
      PW

      • Curtis Conway

        If the NSC were to be used by the US Navy, significant changes would have to be made. Incorporation of the changes would required a couple of years. The LCS (either flavor) has not been to the Arctic for any period of time. If this is to be a US Naval Surface Combatant, it must be able to handle emergent tasking when ever it comes, and where ever it sends them. We will be operating into the future with about 300 ships. Little room for error in availability is possible. Tasking Ballistic Missile Defense (BMD) capable Aegis Cruisers and DDG-51 Destroyers will introduce more complexity into the scheduling equation. Resources are going to be stretched. Therefore, if the LCS cannot be modified into a multi-warfare platform, it should be scrapped at most, or limited to operations in US waters. As it is, the US Navy continuing with the aggressive LCS support policy, is planning to fail.

  • Lop_Eared_Galoot

    >>

    The chorus of criticism facing the first ships of the Navy’s new Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) class calls for a little historical context to be brought to this debate. Almost all new ship classes experienced considerable “birthing pains in their early days.

    >>

     

    It sure does. The Knox, OHP and Spruance were all designed in an era when terrorists weren’t shooting AShM and The Fleet went where it willed rather than having to ask permission to enter places like the Gulf Of Sidra or South China Sea (ever wonder why the USN didn’t have a Carrier within a thousand miles of Hainan when the EP-3E pulled that stupid stunt?).

    As such, small, sacrificial, picket screens were a necessary part of the defensive layering of the overall battlegroup structure and people generally understood what that meant from WWII experience off wonderful places as Iron Bottom Sound, Cape Engano and of course Iwo and Okinawa.

     

    >>

    This is not new. Indeed, the first six frigates acquired by the American Navy in 1797 all came in late and over budget.

    >>

    Yeah but that’s the problem you see.

    You want to continue the tradition of buying half-ready ships and then building them up. Whereas sensible civilians who have to watch their purse want to see the ships properly engineered _before_ we collectively pay multiple billions for a **Class** that is not so much broken as _CONOPS ABSENT_.

    And in this case, so much of what was ‘never considered’ (because they knew the system weight would bloat the hull and take away the Speed Boat characteristics) _cannot be fixed now_. Because the weight/top weight issues are still there and the lack of upper deck spaces for things like a viable VLS prevent the very kinds of flexibility we expect in a modern frigate by denying shot count and sensor coverage.

    We do NOT want to take a step backwards away from active arrays and deep magazines as layered defenses, even if the size of the hull requires a shift from Standard to ESSM. LCS instead provides a cobbled together series of air and surface search systems with no redundancy and no instant-on fast reaction in a layered defensive response at all.

     

    >>

    The most strident criticisms about LCS focus on the USS Freedom (LCS-1, built by Lockheed Martin) and Independence (LCS-2, built by General Dynamics and Austal), which in addition to being the firsts of their respective ship design types, are essentially research and development firsts-of-class ships –– virtual prototypes. This means that these ships are experimental with characteristics, issues and challenges that will be corrected in follow-on ships. The Navy contributed to this situation, describing the lead units of both variants as “Sea Frame 0” platforms, begging the question: “what’s a ‘Sea Frame,’ anyway?

    >>

    Sea Frame and Air Frame are obvious coequivalents so stop trying to be funny. Because the USAF never sent the YF-22 and 23 overseas after a compressed Sea Trials period that smacked of pencil whipping to provide a deployment green light so that they could ‘advertise success’ in a trip to a civilian port.

    It’s as though we are being sold this on the model of Congressional ‘fact finding’ as the junket express.

    And it’s _not_ going to get better because we in fact -can’t- use these ‘experimental’ ships in exercises as they are OUTGUNNED by even the local navies.

     

    >>

    The Knox class frigates (which achieved Initial Operational Capability in 1969) were labeled as “McNamara’s Folly” after then-Defense Secretary Robert McNamara and were often criticized for their single screw, single gun, and design-to-cost approach. Originally designated as destroyer-escorts, the entire class was re-classified as frigates in 1975 (in a general re-classification of U.S. surface warships), but were forever compared unfavorably to “real” destroyers.

    Spruance class destroyers (IOC 1975) were criticized as bit 7,900 ton “destroyers” possessing only two five-inch guns and an ASROC launcher. They were hardly more capable than the still-in service World War II-era destroyers upgraded as part of the Fleet Rehabilitation and Modernization (FRAM) program. But the ships’ critics conveniently ignored other key facts that the Spruance-class was also helicopter capable, equipped with NATO Sea Sparrow Self Defense Missiles, and boasted a powerful bow mounted sonar. At the time, criticism of the Spruance ships was loud, strident and frequent.

    The Perry class frigates (IOC 1977), much admired by many LCS critics, were unfavorably branded by as “square pegs” when they were first deployed. Criticism of the Perrys was fierce, including such charges as the ships had only a single shaft and were not survivable and suffered from the lack of main propulsion redundancy; they were problem-prone and had unreliable ship’s service diesel generators; a power-limited “fish finder” high-frequency sonar; and the Oto Malera 76mm was derided as a “pop gun” rather than a “proper” 5-inch gun. On top of all that, the critics said and the crew was too small and was unable to operate and maintain the ships properly. These echo many of today’s criticisms of LCS.

    >>

     

    The Knox was a fill force design as the FRAMs started to go and we were stuck with the operations costs of the SEA adventure draining all budgets.

    Spruance did ASW and nobody doubted that the Soviet sub threat was their preeminent means of sea denial. RusNav Doctrine was an operational concept designed by a field marshal and we had to have an ability to deal with it. The sadness of the ships poor missile armament (it was a destroyer with a frigate weapons system) however is the direct opposite of the LCS class which doesn’t even meet it’s own hull class predecessor’s level of survivability and weapons system functionality/engagement count redundancy.

     

    >>

    The Ticonderoga class cruisers fared little better when the lead ship first deployed in December 1983. Gallons of ink were spilled about how top heavy the ships were. They had weight and moment restrictions, suffered from poor sea keeping characteristics, and had unreliable “hydraulic fluid rain forest” MK26 missile launchers.

    >>

     

    Tico was the result of the unwillingness of the cheap-as-thieves Navy’s unwillingness to put AEGIS AAW on nuclear hulls as proper inner-zone goalkeepers for the CVN and BB that really needed the help because USN -also- wasn’t willing to pay for an airframe (or TLAM targeting capability) that would take the battlegroup/SAGs SOI out past about 300nm.

    Part of this was political. Most was just cost.

     

    >>

    The Arleigh Burke class guided missile destroyers didn’t face as much criticism as its predecessors, but it was still roundly derided for having only a helicopter “lily pad” without an onboard hangar. Its engineering spaces with their low overheads bulged with pipes and cables. It was also said that the first ship, Arleigh Burke, was rebuilt three times over before final delivery because of an immature design, problems with sharing software between shipyards, and the late addition of “stealth” features.

    >>

     

    AB was the result of the failure of the Tico to meet costs in a world where we once again had aging hulls in all AAW/ASW/Strike classes and could not afford a half measure standard of build. The hull was big and broad because that’s what you _have to_ have to put a VLS bobweight in the middle. And just like the USN wants to do with the LCS, the Flight I Burkes still were too cheaply built to be properly outfitted for the ASW mission. The question you have to ask is: “If it’s an ‘experimental hull’ without the systems installations to test, how can it be a representative pioneer for the rest of the class?”

    Burke couldn’t answer that question but thankfully at least had the AAW and Strike missions to fall back on. LCS, as far as I can tell, is both too costly and too nekkid to be useful at -any- inshore mission.

    MCM: what happens when you face stealthy plastic or longrange AShM/CAPTOR mines that you cannot conveniently standoff the hull from while you play your little satellite-cues-UUV hunter games? What if the mines are emplaced with aircraft and the satellite cannot in fact -find- the layer track to cue the search grid? What if you have to sweep as you go because the COEA has to be built _right now_?

    SUW: We pioneered FOG-M back in the /early/ 1980s. The Brazillians, Serbs and French have all taken this capability and expanded upon it until it is now a 100km capable weapons system with completely secure command link and superb targeting options. The Israelis have done the same thing with Spike on an RF tether. Are you _honestly_ telling me that we cannot even put missiles-in-a-box Netfires out to sea because we don’t have the technical know-how? If so, the USN has significantly greater techbase problems than simply a leaky, FORD hull. All of which poses a major problem because the days of killing PCIs with gunfire are at an end. If Hezbollah can put a C702 on a shorelauncher, they can rig something similar on a 40 knot hull. And especially if Iran gets tacnukes, every fast hull has to be considered a potential Shinyo, whether manned or not. Point being, we cannot indulge the -fantasy- that the LCS is a Speed Boat Chaser. That’s WWI thinking and as soon as we shift to the concept of close-in rather than stand-off attack doctrine, we risk the rise of a threat which avoids our pursuit by using their -own- SO or MazCat doctrines.

    ASW: Anybody who believes in the Das Boote CONOP of spot-the-periwake ASW needs to be seriously flogged and keel hauled until they think better. Nobody risks diesel or even AIP hulls in 300-500ft of water under-keel conditions. They -may- use them to employ mines and other sensor driven network systems. They will certainly use them to deploy AShM and UAVs with 60-100nm reachin. And when they do, the LCS and it’s rinky dink approach to VDS+Helo driven ASW will look like the blind man feeling his way through a cornfield infested with snipers. I seriously do not believe that inshore ASW has an answer using the contemporary approach to hulled systems design. It has got to shift towards unmanned robotic hulls and fast-emplace mini-SOSUS type systems, along with whatever ‘turns the sea to glass’ InSAR or LiDAR overhead we can manage.

     

    >>

    Despite the early criticisms of almost every recent surface warship firsts of class, the Navy was able to successfully address the initial criticisms and fix their shortcomings. The criticisms of the Perry class ships were overcome in time, especially after the upgraded Coherent Receiver/Transmitter (CORT) combat systems were introduced.

    >>

     

    And again, ‘this is just a civilian talking’ but for the kinds of money being spent there should be real SME insurance onboard this program to ensure we are not justifying the present LCS disaster based on past class class mistakes. There is such a thing as a learning curve, ya know? Children don’t deliberately touch hot burner elements on a stove repeatedly, on the off chance that maybe, this time, it won’t hurt.

    The Japanese use extensive prototyping -before- the commit to car designs, changing features extensively so that volumetric obscenities like those which plague the electric and propulsion systems packaging on the Freedom are rerouted and fixed _before_ they commit to series production.

    Mayhap you could convince me that this was being done by showing me a list of things that Freedom was being continually reworked to incorporate. Yeah. Maybe you could do that, as soon as you get done PR Hacking with your little tourist cruise to Singapore.

     

    >>

    The Spruance class evolved into a first rate anti-submarine warfare platform, with the Navy augmenting the original SQS-53 bow-mounted sonar with towed acoustic arrays in several ships of the class. Intelligence collection spaces were added aboard several ships, and the addition of Tomahawk cruise missiles, weapons that revolutionized the surface Navy by giving it a robust land attack warfare capability, were added later on. The four Kidd variants embarked improved MK26 launchers. Their design was the basis for the Ticonderoga guided missile cruisers.

    >>

     

    And what made the TICO work was the VLS. SPY-1A/1D improvements also help. _Show Me_ the specific warfighter systems which make the LCS **better than** it’s competitors on the international frigate market. Or even ‘better than’ a realistic threat model.

    You can’t. Because you’re so damn busy marketing the thing that you don’t see how pathetic your PBS reality TV shows are in highlighting what this vessel _isn’t_: A Warship.

    • Lop_Eared_Galoot

      >>
      The Ticonderoga class evolved into the premier anti-aircraft warfare platform in the world, and they too were fitted out with the MK41 vertical launching systems (VLS) to replace the MK26 missile launchers when VLS matured. In 2013, select ships have been upgraded to capable ballistic missile defense (BMD) assets. And what about the Arleigh Burke destroyers? Not only were later Flight II versions outfitted with helicopter hangars, but they have evolved into what many naval experts say are the most capable surface warships ever built, capable of integrated AAW, ASW, BDM, and strike warfare missions.
      >>

      LCS can do none of these things while it clings to a 45 knot inshore sprint capability. A capability which damages it’s seakeeping and is of such limited value that it’s endurance is measured in /hours/ of capability.

      The naval Special Operations community _turned down_ the PC Cyclone class because it was considered too big and overt. We know that these ships cannot fulfill a fleet role, even as sacrificial pickets, because they lack the sensor and weapons systems to act as even a screening tripwire. Even as they also lack the endurance and seakeeping to go Deep Blue.

      Inshore MCM is better done by hulls you can afford to throw away because if the mines don’t get you, the shoals may well do just as easily.

      Inshore ASW is not a game played with short endurance systems but rather something that needs persistence as early arrival and the ability to seed large areas with roving robotic patrol and unmanned sensor networks.

      And thus we are left asking ‘What does LCS /do/?’ Not just well, but _at all_ that justifies on third the cost of the Burke without any of the selfprotect, hull-survivability classification or offensive (overland power projection) strike warfare options?

      To me, the LCS is the next Panay waiting to happen.

       

      >>

      Given the Navy’s history of initial issues and challenges, which the first ship of almost every modern surface combatant class has faced, are the challenges confronting USS Freedom and Independence significantly different? While it of course would be ideal if the first ships of any warship class would be delivered ready to go to war. It would be nice, but why should we expect less of the LCS firsts-of-class than the Spruance, Perry, Ticos, and Burkes have all achieved over time?

      >>

      Why shouldn’t we expect better? Please, let me count the ways.

      1. The U.S. is, or was, a center of excellence in marine architecture. That reputation has a lot

      to do with why we aren’t messed with more than we are because the USN is right out there

      on the front lines of ‘diplomacy’. At the same time, our enemies are neither blind nor stupid.

      2. The rest of the world won’t stop competing because we refused to be Spartan enough to

      throw a generational booboo of naval design off the cliff of failed technological solutions

      looking for a mission. Better the hull class than the people I say.

      3. We are looking at amounts of money that make Americans cringe at a time when

      multibillionaires like Warren Buffet are all ‘selling out’ of American stocks in both consumer

      goods and banking stocks (to the tune of millions of shares) as the surge wave from the ill-

      considered Stimulus finally hits the currency markets as a massive inflationary devaluation of

      our money and a resulting MONUMENTAL depression is almost assured. Bluntly, you

      may not get another chance to do a new hull start on a light vessel for a long, long, time.

      Don’t screw this up.

      4. Nobody should use the excuse of ‘did it before’ to justify repeating mistakes. While I will be

      the first to admit that LCS is in fact creating an entirely new breadth of categories as

      dumbness in naval engineering, what should not be ignored is their attempt to walk away

      from _what does work_ in the preceding hull designs. That’s double down on stupid: invent

      new mistakes, fix-by-abandoning what works.

      5. In a military procurement world where every single program is dominated by the greed and

      corrupt influence of career making and profit seeking at the expense of American interests,

      this is the final step from “Well it costs more than it should for the last 10% of unnecessary

      performance but it sure scares the neighbors!” to “What performance edge? We paid so

      much for…nothing?” And the con that you are trying to pull on us as a ‘plea for patience’ is in

      fact so common as to be known as _Fitzgeralds Law_: ‘Too soon to tell’ then reaches a

      tipping point of roller coaster inertia to become ‘Too late to stop’. Without a massive

      contractual termination penalty.

      Which again says more about American integrity than it does that of our business leadership.

      Because we are brought up not to ask for what we have no intention of paying for and it is in

      our good nature to -want- to succeed on a handshake because it says we have good

      judgment in whom we trust our money too. Clearly, in the case of the DOD, this is a

      symptom of massively delusional psychology.

       

      >>

      While some first-of-class ships are more highly criticized than others, the extent of negativity seems mostly attributable to the degree or amount of “newness” inherent in the ship’s design. The more “newness” that exists, the greater is the level of criticism. With LCS, which uniformed and civilian Navy leaders have universally said will usher in a new era in terms of how the Navy will conduct overseas presence and engagement, that “newness factor” is high. The Ticonderoga and Burke classes fared better, in terms of the overall level of criticism, compared to that leveled at lead ships of the Knox, Perry and Spruance classes, and now Freedom and Independence.

      >>

       

      There is no ‘newness’ (like ‘truthiness’, a term in search of relevance as hierarchial percentage lack of lies rather than being simply…true) here. The warfigther systems are cobbled together OTS solutions to an unstated mission need as CONOPs.

      Which makes me wonder exactly how this thing got so far through development. Because ‘back in the day’ of the evil A-12, one of the things that guaranteed the program would fail was a lack of accurate mission-restricted capability creep. And the reason for that was that it was NavAir driven off a wishlist for everything available. And the reason someone didn’t ask whether this was actually affordable was because there was no **Mission Elements Needs** or MENS study. Nor a COEA Cost And Operational Effectiveness Analysis. Which are LEGAL REQUIREMENTS under DFAR or the Defense Federal Acquisition Rules before a single penny can be spent on so much as a paper clip of Concept Formulation as Demonstration Validation as Full Scale Engineering Development as Let’er Rip low-lot production. Each stage of which has to have some degree of SAR report coverage, detailing how progress is being made towards achievement of the initial MENS/COEA based ‘we need this to do X role’ system justifications.

      Nope. No ‘newness’ here. Just the same ol’ exploitation of civilian ignorance of how our government is -supposed- to work. As a scam of Billions-with-a-B proportion$.

       

      >>

      Part of this is attributable to the fact that Ticonderoga evolved from the already understood Spruance class, taking advantage of the same hull design and propulsion plant, but adding a new combat system. The Burke evolved from the Ticonderoga with the same combat system and propulsion plant, but a different hull design.

      >>

       

      No. Stop using other classes which have useful definitions of mission capability to edge around the fact that the LCS, by the admission of senior Naval Sec personnel, has none.

      You _don’t_ develop CONOPS /after/ you build the hull. Not in a Navy with this much experience.

      Not in an acquisition environment run by law as opposed to simple avaricious whim.

       

      >>

      However, the Perry FFG began as a blank sheet of paper––originally conceived as a “Patrol Frigate” (PF-109)––with a significant amount of “newness”: new hull , new engineering plant, new sonar, new gun, and a new minimal-manning crew concept.

      The LCS firsts-of-class are similarly “highly new”: new hull designs, new requirement for high speed, modular mission packages, heavy reliance on off-board vehicles for sensing and scouting, very minimal manning, crew swap, new shipbuilders, and a contractor supported maintenance strategy. Moreover, the Freedom and Indepedence are replacing three classes in terms of numbers, if not precisely in mission requirements: Cyclone class PCs, Perry class FFGs, and Avenger class MCMs. Given this degree of “newness,” it should not be surprising that LCS has generated so much public turbulence in the early stages of the programs.

      The level of criticism being directed at LCS will most likely continue until additional ships of both the Freedom and Independence classes are delivered and deployed. Key to all this will be the fact that officers and sailors will learn in minute detail how to operate and maintain them––and unlock the operational flexibility and adaptability that Navy officials maintain are inherent in their respective designs.

      >>

       

      Fitzgerald’s Law is now an attempt at psychological dominance as Confirmation Bias. “It was that way before, it -will be- that way again, suck it up and like it!”

      Except that the LCS is not the OHP and should not repeat it’s mistakes. And the ‘highly new’ is actually short for ‘does’nt exist’ in the key elements of a warfighter package (things that go boom) because, effectively, LCS is _not_ a warship. It’s a overarmed police boat that costs 400 million each.

       

      >>

      Recent Navy history vividly demonstrates that the first ship of every class faced obstacles. We should maintain perspective: every new class of warship debuts to a chorus of critics.

      >>

       

      There wouldn’t be so MANY angry critics if our questions about system loadouts and mission packages as role justifications had been listened to in the YEARS that it took to bring this class to the tipping point of ‘too late to stop’ production fraud that it is now at.

      The LCS cannot beat European frigates that cost half as much. China is going to be world leader, economically, by 2018. They will look at MEKO and LCS and choose MEKO as the baseline for their own inshore assets. Since LCS will not be safe in a littoral flotilla without masses of associated Burke or better hulls to ‘protect the pickets’, the question becomes why build a 400 million dollar decoy when you could build more Burkes _if you have to come inshore at all_?

      And again, we are left in a CONOP vacuum of what this ship is really supposed to do, on it’s own or in combination with other fleet assets. At all.

      I could ‘fix’ this class. I would have to drop 50 billion dollars into new systems designs for hull redesign (more oil, less speed, better manning ratio); high speed UAVs and miniature surface and air launched standoff munitions; active seekers for ESSM and an APAR type AAW suite competitive with ASTER/MICA as well as entirely new terminal self protection package. I could spend another 20 billion for enhanced electrical capacitance as pulsed power generation needed to run miniaturized EML for longrange NGS 100nm over the beach and Laser AAW for ‘leak free’ AShM defense. And given this amount of further cash investment, I could make this (least valuable hull) class survivable, in close, against what I see to be the likeliest threats from shore based and light weight naval threats.

      But _do we really need to operate here_?

      That is a question I cannot answer without access to the OPPLANs of scenarios involving Korea and Taiwan and Iran. My first blush economics driven guess is that, within ten years, we are going to be in the position Russia was during the Cold War. Technologically second best and unable to pay to play in competing with the vast numbers of Chinese engineers as R&D investment for what will turn out to be another non-event. As the civilized world doesn’t want or need the disruption to it’s economic base that a major shooting war with the global industrial engine of China would produce.

      With inshore threats now migrating out to 1,000nm or more (with the advent of ASBMs and increasingly capable sub forces) and given this low-draft, short legged, hull is _not_ a blue water boat able to survive the sea states to be encountered there, I do not see a mission need for this system, solely to prove that a 3,000 ton hull, sans weapons systems, can go 40+ knots.

      I certainly don’t see why we need two classes of them.

  • Ray Flores

    These ships need a small modicum of core ASW equipment. A small conformal hull mounted sonar and (2) Single 12.75 inch tubes are better than nothing. This would also provide additional datum lines with the sonar, and provide some small self defense capabilities during high sea state and aircraft fuel/arming evolutions. LCS 2 seems a prime candidate for (1) 8 cell MK 41 Tactical length installed in the module location behind the gun. The NSM missile could be adapted for VLS. 16 ESSM & 4 NSM’s would increase the ship’s capabilities w/o to much of a weight penalty. CEAFAR sensor suite would be an upgrade and you could retain the Sea Giraffe for volume search. Ideal solution NO, but we are going to end up with @ least 12 hulls+. We need constructive solutions. If our friends, children, treasure are going to be serving on these units then it’s time to find the fix. I would prefer a frigate but the powers that be do not want one. A whole new generation of small palletized “SWARM” weapons seems to be the idea. I hope we still have someone smart enough to do just that.

    • http://defense.aol.com/ Colin Clark

      The single most compelling and believable argument I’ve heard from those close to the program — both in industry and the Navy — is that LCS provides numbers which allow the US to project presence at a reasonable cost. A promising young Navy officer said they are the latest thing in gunboats, al la the Chinese river patrols we once mounted.
      But if we just want to demonstrate presence, could that be much more effectively done with JHSVs (they can carry an Abrams and several hundred troops) accompanied by T-AKEs? These ships can steam for long distances, carry cargo and Marines or Army soldiers. If they need heavily armed ships then send em! In addition to some LCS, consider buying European frigates and more JHSVs. And perhaps a few more Wasp class….
      Waddaya say, folks?

      Colin Clark
      Editor
      Breaking Defense

      • Peter

        Hi Mr. Clark,

        Thanks for the invitation for comments. I agree that more could be done with the U.S. Navy’s LCS design.

        I am interested in how the LCS design won over all the others. Sure, price was a factor, but I am sure there are other more capable ships for about the same price too and with proven designs. And who decided on the weapons fit? Who decided to make 1/3rds to 1/2 of the boat a helicopter deck and hangar?

        I believe the U.S. shipbuilding industry has other

        I think we readers are pretty unsure what role the LCSs do. As observers of the Kosovo War concluded, the US Army needed lighter wheeled vehicles, hence the Stryker Brigade Combat Teams and the push for 20 to 40-ton FCSs. That didn’t quite work out with the IED threat so now it’s back to Heavy Armor. Wow…full circle.

        Is the LCS born from the “Popular Trend of the Day,” that being Go-Fast Drug Boats and Somali Pirates?

        Take a look at this drawing…

        http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A2KJkIZrdbZRskkAncCJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Du.s.%2Bcorvette%2Bships%26fr%3Dyfp-t-900%26fr2%3Dpiv-web%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D45&w=1280&h=720&imgurl=media.defenceindustrydaily.com%2Fimages%2FSHIP_FFG-Corvette_MMCS_Concept_3_Sizes_LMCO_lg.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.defenseindustrydaily.com%2Fthe-usas-new-littoral-combat-ships-updated-01343%2F&size=294.7KB&name=LCS%3A+The+USA’s+Littoral+Combat+%3Cb%3EShips%3C%2Fb%3E&p=u.s.+corvette+ships&oid=9dab64a8b23f53a26459eb81fd62c56c&fr2=piv-web&fr=yfp-t-900&tt=LCS%3A+The+USA’s+Littoral+Combat+%3Cb%3EShips%3C%2Fb%3E&b=31&ni=200&no=45&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=12lrbtfm5&sigb=13d4908hj&sigi=12oudkhdk&.crumb=SK/5Zh5tyno&fr=yfp-t-900

        Is the USN LCSs cloaked in secrecy and the eight Harpoon launchers, two MK38 MOD 2 25mm cannons, triple torpedo tubes (note the little red dots in the hole on the middle of the superstructure—those are the torpedo tubes) and four VLA cells omitted from text and photos like some sort of UFO-conspiracy? If one were to forget the modules, the LCS design may indeed be a very useful fast corvette or LCS with the planned weapons fit of VLAs, Harpoons, and torpedoes. I take it the USS Freedom is of the bottom ship size (#85), not the middle. Boy, if the USS Freedom is of the middle ship size (#118 = ample space), then what happened to the original design concept sketch? The idea of the modules seemed to have tanked the Lockheed LCS design. Even with module compartments replacing the Harpoon launchers in the smallest ship size, at least in the original sketch, the LCS-1 had VLAs and torpedo tubes, not many, but it sure had them.

        I seriously doubt LCS-1 is of #150 size because if it is, then what really happened then?

        Could you please contact your Navy contact and ask him WHY the USN deviated so much from the original Lockheed Martin sketches? I mean Lockheed has got the design correct in this graphic. Somehow someone botched up the LCS design by removing too much. I mean how much will each of the three ships cost in this graphic?

        What would be REALLY ODD is if foreign navies buy the original Lockheed LCS graphic concept with Harpoons, MK38s, triple torpedo tubes, and VLAs (#85). Then THOSE navies will have the winning design and the USN will have the cheapskate cut-corners version of the LCS-1.

        Thanks.

      • PolicyWonk

        If its the navy desire to project power (or presence) at a reasonable cost, then LCS isn’t the answer – or at least a good answer.

        The JHSV’s are useful for inter-theater operations, and can carry a good sized load of gear and/or personnel. But the JHSV isn’t armed that heavily and was never intended to be. For the LCS, its middle name is “Combat”, but its protection says “kick me”, while its armament says “I can’t hit back”.

        The Chinese aren’t going to let our navy patrol their rivers anymore (fat chance!), so that idea, while interesting carries little weight. If presence is what the Navy wanted, then the naval variant offered of the NSC would’ve been a better choice overall – its got the legs.

        The LCS is set up in a way that no one is sure what its for or what its mission will be (all anyone is certain of, is its lack of survivability). The navy itself is still trying to figure it out – as is evidenced by the ever-changing story/mission/explanations.

        • http://defense.aol.com/ Colin Clark

          I wasn’t proposing we do river boat patrols — just referring to that old mission for perspective….
          Colin Clark
          Editor
          Breaking Defense

          • PolicyWonk

            Fair enough. That was in reply to the statement of the up-and-coming officer’s “gunboat” example.

            I am, BTW, hugely in favor of building more small-deck carriers instead of large-deck carriers, ala the Wasp class size platforms, to better distribute our risk and get better coverage, while demonstrating our interest in a give region/location.

            Cheers.

  • Curtis Conway

    The LCS is the wrong ship, in the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong ship-set of weapons. Too much money for too little capability. Death Trap underway if it goes into combat.